Motorrads Jeff Ward engine build series 2

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kaw rider:
motorrad
How about making your flywheel ring out of tungsten?

Motorrad:
Hmm.. there is an idea...

As it is now I can go from 33oz to 45oz to 57oz with the 2 I have now...


Did some more shimming of kips tonight.. (Little tinker stuff while I wait on parts to move forward).. I didnt like how much play there was in the actuator disk...

I should have cut the E-clip grove closer tolerance... (but I went off stock spec, not thinking about this when I cut it)... so..I cut a shim out of some Urithane..... (stock setup would benefit from shim)

Motorrads Jeff Wards Engine build round 2 9-94.jpg (51.64 KiB) Viewed 7561 times

Motorrads Jeff Wards Engine build round 2 9-95.jpg (51.3 KiB) Viewed 7561 times

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HAHA.. Buddy just showed up... (wanting to drink my beer I believe)..

and caught me HAND SANDING. my .50mm shims down by hand... to the correct size to shim the kips (since I can only get to .38mm with the shims I have). He gave me a look like I was nuts... undecided

Going sanded down to .48mm and going to step down .01mm at a time till they are SPOT ON...


Okay.. Just for referance...

On a CUSTOM cometic gasket (with small kips holes)... standard thickness (.020" squished)....

Ignition side kips (left side) took .46mm
Clutch side Kips (right side) took .25mm

Also. while chattin on the phone with one of you tonght about this... I should elaborate...

They (who wont be named) were shimming based on slop in the center kips and called me to ask how I got all the slop out without binding everything up.... NO NO.....

You are shimming based on slop on the drums (up and down)... they need to have some movement after all is said and done (for thermal expansion, and gunk build up).. in turn, you are raising the center kips (the whole reason for this shim job).. (with a off the shelf cometic gasket and no shims, you are losing 1.5mm of exaust timing!!)

So what you are checking when you bolt all together to check your shims, is to make sure you still have some play in the drums...

Does this make scense???

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jonny500:
i have this problem on my engine. when the i have the cylinder bolted down i can move the center flaper up and down quite alot maybe 5mm. some is due to the flaper pins in the drum chanels but most is down to the drum moving up and down. i know the thickness of the base gasket plays a apart in this but what do you recomend for the upand down movement on the the drum/clearance between the drums and th cases

Motorrad;
There is nothing to be done about flapper pins in the drum channels. (except parts in good shape... Pin flip..., or allot of work) (mine are all new Wink )

The drum's moving up and down is what I am shimming... Resulting in moving the center flapper up so when its at full open, it doesn't hang down in the port anymore..1.5mm in my case (see older posts there are pictures)..

All you can do is get some shims, and start shimming, guess and check... remember both sides may not take the same amount!.. Treat the shims as part of the base gasket.. (go between CYl and cases)

When I had mine mocked up with the standard out of the package Cometic gasket (big holes where kips goes through)... it took 1mm and .75mm respectively....


The reason I am making such a big deal on this kips shim thing... is my 2.5gal motor (last one) just ran FLAT at about 5300RPM... went there and just layed down.... there are many other reasons I wont get into for this... But a big part of this is... the previous motor builder missed the fact that the out of the package cometic gasket, in my motors case.... results in losing 1.5mm of exaust timing!!!

I hate for people to put all this time and effort into building a K5 (lets face it you have one for a reason). and be leaving power and RPM on the table that a STOCK motor would have had due to a differant design in a base gasket......

I have seen it many times here local... guy is way to fast to whip out a dremel, and $$$ parts, when a motor that a guy pays ettention to on little things like this. and doesnt spend a dime, will be just as fast. always been a big believer in building HP 1/4HP at a time with just attention to detail..

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Leak down tested the motor today.. (without piston in there).... Just to check crank seals before I got much further...

Leaks like a sive around kips rod... GRRRRR.

Looks like Ill be ordering another shaft.... I was hoping this one would seal... and was questionable about it....

On a good note... this means I can cut the snap ring grooves tighter this time

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DoldGuy:
Motorrad,
Did you check the seal on the power valve shaft? Mine held pressure prior to tear down & once cleaned & reassembled she leaked there too. The seal fits most of the KXs & are cheap & make it a habit to replace during topend maintainence.


Motorrad:
Brand new seal... As is every one in the motor..... Now.....

The shaft had some pitting that I polished a bit, to see if I could save it.... Nope.

Just another Kawasaki parts bag throw on the "fix" pile at this point... Big pile..


kaw rider:
i wouldn't spend too much time on that since it is only a issue when the power valves are open and a small issue at that.


Motorrad:
It leaks bad enough where Im going to..

Can vacume the motor and just watch the guage FALL...

can pressure the motor to 7psi, and hear it whistle through there, and watch the guage DROP... Yes you can HEAR IT running through... From across the garage..
Squirt soapy water on it, and it blows the soapy water away...


ordered a new shaft, guide, etc etc etc... today... Ugg. I have more $$ in kips than I cair to think about..
I went crazy with some polishing compound today..... carbon shouldnt stick to this..

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Got kips stuff today..
Guide, seals, hardware, shaft, etc...

Cut the Snap ring grooves... nice and tight this time

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A word on Loctite...
It is both your best friend.. and YOUR WORSE ENEMY!!!

Know where to use it... and how to use it... STRONGER IS NOT BETTER!

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Yes.. I use retaining compound.. there are ALOT of differant kinds of retaining compound... differant strengths, set times, temp ranges, tolerance's to fuel, oil and so on... I like 648, sets fast (5min work time, 24hr set) but it isnt affected by fuel, ethonal, oil, etc...

USES... DONT USE ALOT... When I put in for example a tranny bearing... Ill put a VERY VERY small spot (this stuf has a 4500PSI break strength) on 2 sides of the bearing (opposite each other)... its enough that when its time to get it out.. you can... but will aid in not spinning in the case.... IF you were to put this stuff around the entire bearing... GOOD LUCK getting it apart again without buying a set of cases...

Think ahead... if your doing a main bearing... and want to "retain" it to both the crank, and the case... make for darn sure one side has VERY little on it so it will come loose... (I like to use more on the crank, as it tends to spin, and when apart, if the bearings come out stuck to the crank, I can take HEAT to it to get rid of the loctite)

Retaining compound can be a savior for some of you that have "worn" cranks.. or have had a bearing spin on it in the past... as they make this stuff to fill .006-.015" gaps!!!!!!.. I have saved many Old VERY HARD TO GET parts this way.. (Norton transmission, CZ cranks, etc).. just polish out the galling from the spun bearing.. and GLUE HER IN..

I USE this stuff every day at work... and know how it behaves... WHEN IN DOUBT, or your not sure, comfortable etc... DONT USE IT.. you will do MORE HARM THAN GOOD.. and will destroy stuff trying to get it apart again!!!

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Oh... same goes for the lever itself....

I can actuate my kips, with the eclip gone, and the nut unscrewed.... all works fine as if it was tight...

Just some extra holding Umph reasurance...

Dissasembly takes some Know how.. but thats no problem...


kaw rider:
Here is your piston with extra oil holes to wrist pin area and wrist bore clearance changed. Also new rings that are lapped and set at .011" ring end gap. Also 28 gram lighter piston assy.


Motorrad:
Sweet!!

Hooray a set of rings that fit right...

what the heck is up with wiseco latly...
Loose rings, metal floating in their wrist pins, etc etc..

I think we should point out .... for anyone looking to get the lightening done to their piston..

I specifically requested to "stay to the area above the wrist pin"...

Got my piston back today..

Back out to the garage now to polish on the top of the piston...


kaw rider:
your sharper then i thought, you know your ring spec. the backspacing on a wiesco ring is tight. how you like the wrist pin, 20 grams ligher then wiseco


Motorrad:
Im not as dumb as I look...

Yes. that wrist pin is a work of art...

Speaking of art...

I think this is acceptable, and will match the head nice... reflect more heat, and stick less carbon.

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Checking weights... (before I polished piston top)
This is pin, clips, rings, piston. (no bearing, add 21G for bearing))
Measurement in Grams.

Motorrads Jeff Wards Engine build round 2 9-992.jpg (80.29 KiB) Viewed 7561 times

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Good:
Awesome work guys! What kind of power are you expecting? You've fixed/changed a lot of stuff that just has to equal more power. Thanks for sharing all the detail.


Motorrad:
Power... Hmm.. No idea... Not shooting for numbers or bragging rights.. I just want it to run as good as It can, reliably in a desert race type setup...
Which to me, means fixing alot of little flaws, cleaning up the ports, and making it right... (and a stuffer crank) Wink

No problem for sharing, there are some things I have omitted, but not much. (some porting stuff).. Just throwing everything out there for everyone to look at, not as fact, but as what one guy is doing, so others can benefit. (and a compilation of some things that I feel should have been addressed before)


I have had everything lined up ready for assembly since saturday... but... Alass... I am missing the wrist pin clips, and they wont be delivered to my door till wednesday (tomarrow)... Oh the simple little things that hold you up...


Good:
I'm sure I missed it somewhere, but what is your compression ratio going to wind up at?


Motorrad:
All depends on which base/head gasket combo I settle on.. (squish setting)..

But if I run the .010 headgasket, .020 base, (what comes in cometic kit), I should be AT 13:1 (Uncorrected, 4T calculation)..

Trying to stay in a SANE area... (not up around 15:1 etc some are running)... as Racing desert, you go through ALOT OF FUEL... and I cant aford to feed the bike 150miles worth of Q16 in a weekend... Just not worth it.. Shoting for mixing 50/50 Avgas (100LL) and Premium Pump.

Some more Eye candy.

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